Dear friends,
In memory of Joanna Macy, who passed away on July 19th, we are republishing episode #12 of The Way Out Is In podcast series, with an introduction by Jo Confino.
A scholar of Buddhism, systems theory, and deep ecology, Joanna Macy (1929 -2025), PhD, was one of the most respected voices in the movements for peace, justice, and ecology. She interweaved her scholarship with learnings from six decades of activism, had written twelve books, and taught an empowerment approach known as the Work That Reconnects.
In episode 12 (November, 2021), presenters Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and lay Buddhist practitioner and journalist Jo Confino were joined by Joanna Macy to discuss the relevance of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings to the crises we face today as a species; the energy of simplicity; truth-telling and the power of facing the truth; the grounds for transformation; impermanence; interbeing.
Joanna recollects what Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings and activism have meant to her, and shares a special meeting with him in the early 1980s, during a UN peace conference, when Thay read one of his essential poems in public for the first time. Joanna’s activism, forged during many campaigns, and her practice and study of Theravada Buddhism, shine through in her priceless advice about facing the current social and ecological crisis, grieving for all creation, and finding the power to deal with the heartbreaking present-day reality. She also addresses how grief and joy can coexist in one person, and how to be present for life even in the midst of struggle.
Their conversations will take you from the current “great unravelling” and the “gift of death” to Rilke’s poetry; the magic of love as solution; active hope; the contemporary relevance of the ancient Prophecy of the Shambhala Warriors; the possibility of a “great turning”. And can you guess her aspirations at 92? Could a swing be just the perfect place to discuss the evanescence of life?
Brother Phap Huu shares a lesson in patience from Thay, and adds to the teachings of touching suffering, recognizing and embracing the truth, consumption of consciousness, finding balance, and smiling at life.
Jo reads a special translation of one of Rainer Maria Rilke’s Duino Elegies, expands upon some of Joanna’s core books and philosophies, and recollects “irreplaceable” advice about overwork.
The episode ends with a guided meditation by Joanna Macy.
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🔔 The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living is a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
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🎙️ The podcast is co-produced by the Plum Village App and Global Optimism with support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation.
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Quotes
“Do not be afraid of feeling pain for the world. Do not be afraid of the suffering, but take it. That's what a bodhisattva learns to do, and that makes your heart very big.”
“Life is only difficult for those who pick and choose. You just take it. And that helps you feel whole, and maybe flying with the birds helps you be with the deep levels of hell. But this is life and it's all given to us and it's given free.”
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Resources
Lotus in a Sea of Fire (1967)
Call Me By My True Names
Celestial Bodhisattvas
Rainer Maria Rilke
Duino Elegies
The Tenth Elegy
The Book of Hours
Satipaṭṭhāna
World as Lover, World as Self
‘The Shambhala Warrior’
The Shambhala Warrior Prophecy
Bardo
‘Entering the Bardo’
Maitreya
Ho Chi Minh
Śūnyatā
Svabhava
Kṣitigarbha
Parallax Press
Ānāpānasati
Satipaṭṭhāna